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Post by shatnerswig on Jun 11, 2010 6:02:52 GMT 10
at that depth and pressure a fire is impossible. why?
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Post by theshee on Jun 11, 2010 6:12:54 GMT 10
I read this yesterday that kinda made sence or did I read into it wrong??? I have to add, it had nothing to do with the BP thing.
There are certain chemicals that, when accompanied with their own source of oxygen, can burn underwater. I am speculating here, but I would suspect that when those chemicals are burned a "cocoon" of vapor surrounds the flame in what is known as the Leidenfrost effect. This effect allows the flame to burn while being surrounded by water.
Essentially, the Leidenfrost effect occurs when a substance (like the water in which the flame is submerged) is in contact with a heat source or another substance that is significantly higher than the boiling point of one of the substances (in this case the water). It is the same principle that causes water to not boil away rapidly when tossed into a very hot pan.
Edit: - I did some research on this and I wanted to say a few things... H-niner is correct, pure sodium is reactive to water and does produce heat and energy. Often times the reaction between the two can be explosive. This leads me to believe that such a material would NOT be used for creating "fire" underwater in any practical manner.
Additionally, fire or "burning" as he stated is not quite accurate. He is correct about heat (thermal energy) and light (photons) being given off; however that is not what fire or buring really is. Both fire and the act of "burning" are forms of combustion (and they are one in the same). Combustion is a sequence of chemical reactions between a fuel and an oxident. In other words, in order for fire/burning/combustion to take place there must be an oxidizer, namely oxygen (there are a few others, but not many).
I bring this up because your question asked about fire that can still burn underwater. As I stated, there are certain chemicals that can burn underwater so long as they have their own source of oxygen. Sodium reacts to water and oxidizes quickly, so it is possible this could be used for such a purpose, but it would be a very dangerous material to use in this manner.
What do you guys think???
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Post by brillbilly on Jun 11, 2010 6:29:24 GMT 10
this sort of made sence to me in order for fire/burning/combustion to take place there must be an oxidizer, namely oxygen (there are a few others, but not many).
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Post by theshee on Jun 11, 2010 6:40:05 GMT 10
The Leidenfrost effect sorta made sence with me Brill, there has to be gasses coming out of that as well as the oil.
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Post by Wes Gear on Jun 11, 2010 6:53:07 GMT 10
the pressure at that depth would extinguish any fire. you would need an ultra hot expansion event like an explosion and even then it would go out in a matter of milliseconds. when a torpedo hits a sub at depth its not trying to blow it up. it's trying to breach the hull and let the pressure do the work of crushing the sub.
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Post by theshee on Jun 11, 2010 7:11:18 GMT 10
I knew that about the subs... only because I read a book a while back that explained it. Well Im lost like everyone else as to the cause
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Post by Wes Gear on Jun 11, 2010 7:14:12 GMT 10
its a mixture of oil, gas and industrial mud left over from the last attempt to stop the leak.
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Post by shatnerswig on Jun 11, 2010 9:12:48 GMT 10
the pressure at that depth would extinguish any fire. you would need an ultra hot expansion event like an explosion and even then it would go out in a matter of milliseconds. when a torpedo hits a sub at depth its not trying to blow it up. it's trying to breach the hull and let the pressure do the work of crushing the sub. why?
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Post by brillbilly on Jun 11, 2010 11:43:52 GMT 10
why not!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2010 7:11:39 GMT 10
Yeah I assumed the preasure would make a fire impossible.
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