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Post by Rareclan on Mar 7, 2010 14:52:47 GMT 10
this woman is on another planet .... steel can rust very fast when exposed if it is not protected by say paint or an electroplated layer of zinc chromium nickel etc .... sorry there is no enigma here steel is made from iron and while it is more resistant to rusting it is not rust proof, add into the equasion the heat from the fires and just friction during the collapse could have heated some of the steel on the surface of the beams changing the molecular structure enough to reduce the steels rust resistance ..... Steel is an alloy consisting mostly of iron, with a carbon content between 0.2% and 2.1% by weight, depending on the grade. Carbon is the most cost-effective alloying material for iron, but various other alloying elements are used such as manganese, chromium, vanadium, and tungsten.[1] Carbon and other elements act as a hardening agent, preventing dislocations in the iron atom crystal lattice from sliding past one another. Varying the amount of alloying elements and form of their presence in the steel (solute elements, precipitated phase) controls qualities such as the hardness, ductility, and tensile strength of the resulting steel. Steel with increased carbon content can be made harder and stronger than iron, but is also less ductile. Alloys with a higher carbon content are known as cast iron because of their lower melting point and castability.[1] Steel is also distinguished from wrought iron, which can contain a small amount of carbon, but it is included in the form of slag inclusions. Two distinguishing factors are steel's increased rust resistance and better weldability. Though steel had been produced by various inefficient methods long before the Renaissance, its use became more common after more efficient production methods were devised in the 17th century. With the invention of the Bessemer process in the mid-19th century, steel became an inexpensive mass-produced material. Further refinements in the process, such as basic oxygen steelmaking, further lowered the cost of production while increasing the quality of the metal. Today, steel is one of the most common materials in the world, with more than 1300 million tons produced annually. It is a major component in buildings, infrastructure, tools, ships, automobiles, machines,appliances, and weapons. Modern steel is generally identified by various grades of steel defined by various standards organizations As far as the buildings are concerned, oxygen starved and i don't remember any burnt bodies.The cars, point taken but as the good doctor said no toasted bodies from the dust cloud.Also your picture was the engine block vaporised and was the car under the same or similar conditions. Excellent research thanks for the input and i do agree she was a bit affected but a lot of people might say the same about all of us.
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Post by shatnerswig on Mar 7, 2010 15:29:06 GMT 10
please I hope your not sugggesting that there were no people in the buildings.... or the planes .... I know peoplw who worked at ground zero they found pieces of bodies mangled burned crushed pulverized .... you name it.. they found enough to perform dna analysis to I D the remains so the families of the mudered people could have alteast the knowledge that their loved ones remains were found even if it was only small chunks and dismembered body parts and yes some people are still unaccounted for .. you really cannot imagine the carnage and scope of this unless you actually saw it like I did , watching it on a youtube vid or tv ya just cant fathom the amount of destruction .
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Post by Rareclan on Mar 7, 2010 16:25:18 GMT 10
please I hope your not sugggesting that there were no people in the buildings.... or the planes .... I know peoplw who worked at ground zero they found pieces of bodies mangled burned crushed pulverized .... you name it.. they found enough to perform dna analysis to I D the remains so the families of the mudered people could have alteast the knowledge that their loved ones remains were found even if it was only small chunks and dismembered body parts and yes some people are still unaccounted for .. you really cannot imagine the carnage and scope of this unless you actually saw it like I did watching it on a youtube vid or tv ya just cant fathom the amount of destruction . My up most apologies if i caused offence absolutely unintentional. Not for one moment was i suggesting anything of the sort. Once again sorry if I came across slightly flippant,i will put more thought into my posts.Dealing with these subjects does have a conditioning affect but i will never be immune to the suffering of fellow humans on our planet. From what i witnessed on the day and every video since sickens me to the core and thousands more innocent people have suffered as a result.The guilty are not paying the price in my humble opinion.The images of the people who jumped will stay with me always,someone has to pay for that.
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Post by Wes on Mar 7, 2010 16:29:33 GMT 10
So once the paint has burnt off and the metal is exposed to the air it would rust quickly.
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Post by shatnerswig on Mar 7, 2010 17:08:27 GMT 10
So once the paint has burnt off and the metal is exposed to the air it would rust quickly. pretty much wes those pics were not taken minutes after the attack they were taken some time after more like days if not weeks the orange excavator in that one pic belongs to mazzochi wrecking www.mazzocchiwrecking.com/ it is impossible for them to be there that fast !! they showed up later by a day or 2 at the very least you could call them if you like and ask what day they started at the ground zero site they might have had personnel there but not heavy equiptment you couldn t move that kind of machinery that fast logistically to get it to the site esp with all the mayhem right after the first 24 hrs of the attacks on 9/11, but they would most likely tell ya I m serious but I 'm not trying to be a dick ;D anyway .. plenty of time for things to begin to rust .. now like i said raw exposed steel rusts pretty quick . what was left of the nyc fire dept .. the ones who survived, continued to try to put out all the fires after the towers went down spraying who know s how many thousands of gallon of water on the area for days.. and days, the pile of debris where wtc1, 2 and 7 burned for days ....maybe weeks I don t really remember exactly , . not necesarily on the surface but from lower in the pile . lots of heat .. like a furnace. yes some steel melted from this .. not the initial collapse or attack with the jets. but thats another subject so its reallly misleading when that woman is like ohh look instant rust ..... because its not instant .. it makes me mad when these so called experts just spew shit , @ rare we're cool !
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Post by Wes on Mar 7, 2010 18:14:32 GMT 10
OK got the impression that the rust had developed in hours. I think that was the point she was making to support her theory that the rust was caused by something other than water. Makes sense that they would have rusted up if they had been exposed to water for a few days.
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Post by shatnerswig on Mar 7, 2010 19:05:36 GMT 10
ok just got back from dr judy 's website ............. it seems she believes the worlds trade center complex was destroyed by a new super secret weapon based on the principals of the huchinson effect..... and the coo -coo clock strikes midnight ! drjudywood.com/new.html
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Post by Wes Gear on Mar 8, 2010 0:47:59 GMT 10
rareclan we may disagree on what may or may not have happened but i understand you are just looking for the truth. it was nice of you to apologize but not mandatory. i realize i come across very strongly when i debate something. its not anything personal its only part of the debate. i've said this many times............i never get into any debate thinking i am going to change anyone's mind. that is not my goal. i only look at it as me expressing my views. its why i never hold a grudge about any topic.
i realize your apology wasn't aimed at me i just wanted to reiterate that all of us respect each other no matter how heated something becomes. never feel like you have to hold back on anything.
ok debate back on...........
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Post by brillbilly on Mar 8, 2010 4:50:19 GMT 10
Cheers Darryl, may only goodness be bestowed on your soul. Forgive me as I'm in a weird place wrong know,maybe i will see you round the corner. Wesley, what the flippin heck indeed.Instant rust it begs a question. As my bro Brillz and i say, you would have to be an expert in every field and then some to Qualify or Quantify everything. So to summarize as you quite rightly said WHAT THE FUCK ! rareclan we have talked back n forth for years about 9/11 and we have never stopped trying to get the real story,things dont add up and thats why it wont go away,nodoubt on tues we will yet again be talking for hours,speculating this side and that.That all we can do bro,try to get diffinitive proof and thats dam near impossible
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2010 7:07:38 GMT 10
Rare, you seeing Brill on tuesday?
Give him a quick left hook from me........or a hug........not sure which yet?.....will keep you updated.
and Rare, I think we are all agreed that lots of innocent people died horribly, the question we are all asking is why?
I still dont think it had anything to do with Islam hating the west.
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